Club Competitions and certificates

Questions & answers regarding submissions and rules applying to competitions

Re: Club Competitions and certificates

Postby mattd » Tue May 21, 2019 12:48 pm

I'm sorry, I know I haven't been to the club for a while so it might be cheeky to comment, but I'm with Steve M on this one. It was clearly sold to the membership at the EGM that 'judges' (perhaps we should stop using the term) would be critique ONLY.

It says near the top of the rules Tony posted 'judges will not be required to rank the entries' 1st, 2nd and 3rd and commendations are rankings and therefore forbidden under the rules. A judge may optionally choose up to three favourite images, that is not the same as ranking 1,2,3 for the purpose of competition

Where our rules fall down is that we do not clearly state how 1st etc will be determined, but I was under the impression it would be determined from the panels scores.
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Re: Club Competitions and certificates

Postby PhilC » Tue May 21, 2019 7:50 pm

Matt understands what I have understood... and is what the red parts say. External judges are for critique only - though they may “optionally” give positions/commendeds.

Having been one of the panel at Open 1, that is what I understood which is just as well because the external judge for Open 1 was absolutely awful... and did not place or score. The first place for Open 1 can only have been from the panel’s placing. Have I been under a misapprehension this year, or has there been a subliminal roll back of the rules?

For the record, I do think placing and awards should be done as part of the external critique because I believe there should be external and neutral assessment. Despite some judges having personal opinions and preferring particular styles, I much more appreciate his/her opinion not least because they assess more images for these purposes than most members on our panels (me included). But nevertheless I accept the view of the Club as a whole.

Unequivocal clarity is needed.
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Re: Club Competitions and certificates

Postby peterr » Tue May 21, 2019 8:21 pm

PhilC wrote
Matt understands what I have understood... and is what the red parts say. External judges are for critique only - though they may “optionally” give positions/commendeds.



My understanding is that this is with the exception of Awards Night where the external judge's decisions will prevail and there will be no club panel. Interestingly though, there is nothing in the club rules that would preclude a club judging panel operating on Awards Night as well - not that I would be in favour of such a move.
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Re: Club Competitions and certificates

Postby LinM » Thu May 23, 2019 10:50 am

The first two competition placings were solely based on the points scored; I asked about one of mine which was very close to the first 3 if there would be any HC and C awards and was told that this was not going to happen. After my operation/ travel time away, I asked about the certificates I was going to receive having missed a few competitions. I was told the opposite ie only the panel scores..... It wasn't really discussed on FB or here until both the critic's and panel's choices were published on FB. It has been said on here or FB [not sure which] that we can't get HC and C from the panel's points scores. I don't see why that is the case.

If the top three scores are different, they can be 1st, 2nd and 3rd. If there are 3 scores all the same, award joint 1st and make a clear decision about whether the 2nd and 3rd are going to be awarded. In many forms of competition, a joint placing eliminates the place below eg two on 2nd place score means no 3rd place is awarded.

For the HC and C, decide how many there are going to be awarded based on the number of entries. If say, there are 50+ entries, decide to have 1,2,3 HC HC C C. If there are under 10 entries, award only 1,2 and 3 to the three highest scores. IF there are 30+ entries, 1,2,3, HC and C.

Perhaps retrospectively, those who missed out in all sections of the first two competitions , could then receive a certificate, based on the points scores if they wanted to receive it.
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Re: Club Competitions and certificates

Postby ronj » Thu May 23, 2019 12:43 pm

The argument on here has not been about certificates, but whether a judge should have any input into the scoring system at all !
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Re: Club Competitions and certificates

Postby PhilC » Thu May 23, 2019 1:41 pm

Despite a little obfuscation, the rules indicate that individual competitions are judged/scored by the panel, AND their scores are then carried forward for the consistency awards. This is what the club voted for and accepted, though a significant minority may have disagreed. It may well be that (in retrospect) we are poorer for the loss of independent scoring, but we are where we are.

Perhaps the next AGM may wish to clarify the rules, but in my opinion 2018/19 competitions are set in stone.
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